I used to believe that being a good friend meant saying yes to everything. I would stay on the phone for hours and agree to all social requests unthinkingly. No wonder I often felt conflicted about my friends — guilty over the friends I was letting down, disappointed in the friends who were letting me down.
Until you learn how to say no to friends (instead of lying, avoiding them, or giving them way too much even when you’re running on empty), it’s hard to enjoy your connection. This is why the idea of “toxic” friends (which I wrote about in today’s Ask Polly) often rubs me the wrong way. Taking too much and giving too much are both ways of hiding in plain sight, playing a role instead of genuinely showing up.
The pandemic has forced most of us to audit our friendships. This topic is GIGANTIC but I just want to start by saying FRIENDSHIP IS HARD. Most of us don’t know how to draw firm boundaries, ask for what we need, or manage conflict honestly. It’s a mess. So leap in with whatever you’ve got!
I also think that our compasses can get misaligned by our childhood experiences. We can feel "good" or "relief" when we enter a bad situation because it is familiar. It takes time and somatic work to realign the compass to true north.
It's so fucking hard! All of it, goddamn! I learnt a lot about boundaries when I was younger from volunteering at a suicide crisis line (the training was extremely good and taught me the difference between a difficult conversation and an unproductive one). What surprised me, and still continues to surprise me is how stunningly direct you can be with someone while still taking them seriously.
Telling a depressed person that they have talked themselves in circles and it would best for them to hang up to get on with their day sounds so awful and rude, doesn't it? And yet I disobeyed every value about politeness I was raised with, followed the crisis line policies and did it lovingly, and it was taken as such, and I still can't believe I pulled it off. That's a slightly more controlled, intense environment than everyday life but it has stuck with me for years, and reminds me that honesty isn't as scary as overriding the discomfort.
I remember years ago I was in a bad place and I wrote to several friends about it. They all answered very pragmatically, suggesting courses of action when what I wanted was some empathy, some warmth and comfort. I found myself feeling so hurt but I realized that I had created the situation. I had attracted pragmatic friends and I had kept them at arm's length. We had no history together of my being vulnerable so they responded as they thought I wanted. But even seeing that, it's taken me many years to shift my disordered attachment and fear of vulnerability. I am still on the path of it. My difficulties and deep hurt have made me feel so tender toward human beings. What pain we carry!
I don't have an answer but man I have some friends that are huge sucks of time and attention and I'm torn between my "Oh god, not now" reaction when I see a message or something from them and believing as one of their few/only friends, I can't just ditch them because that's not cool.
I'm an only child, and had a mostly positive but boundary-less relationship with my mom for most of my life. Once I finally gave myself permission to set boundaries with her, all of my relationships improved. I finally trusted my own needs and feelings instead of looking to her (or others) for approval / instruction, and became so much better at asking for what I want without shame. When I first started setting them-- which began by me telling her that I didn't want to discuss my dating life with her for a set period of time-- she was angry and hurt. But, after re-setting that boundary several times, we finally broke out of our bad dynamic and into a better one. She and I are still close, and sometimes we even fall back on old patterns, but she trusts and respects me in ways she didn't before. Boundaries are a blessing.
The nebulous way we define friendships doesn't help either -- how tragic for all parties involved when one person wants a much deeper/more invested friendship than theother. Can be very difficult to manage expectations without having romance-like "Defining The Relationship" conversations.
This week's column made me think - especially this part:
"It’s humbling to realize that your damage probably matches your friends’ damage on some level, it just manifests itself in different ways."
I too have struggled maintaining friendships in the past, but I'd like to think that I'm generally good at understanding that I'm flawed and biased and have deep insecurities. What frustrates me is when friends can't meet me there - I say something to myself like "why do I have to be the only one that's reflecting on what I did wrong here and how I could be a better friend? You're not doing any reflecting!" I've found this with some ex-friends even when mustering up the courage to have those difficult boundaries conversations.
Although I can zoom out and see why some ex-friendships just weren't right, I do wonder "is it me?" How do you know when your boundaries are serving you or when you're just not being a flexible enough friend?
I have lived in 3 states in 10 years. This means that most of my friendships are long distance and rely on text and phone calls, especially more so in the pandemic. I struggled with this pre-covid and I am especially struggling with this now, because so many of my friendships seem to have unspoken conflicts or minor breakdowns that seem related to the incompleteness of a text exchange. Tone is hard to convey over a typed message, you know? I struggle to admit I need more from a friendship because I feel like you need to accept your friends as they are.
I loved this week’s column, & think the idea of boundaries & clearly expressing them goes in all ways. I had a friend for years for whom I was always the one listening & supportive & giving advice, because I didn’t set boundaries - & this was fine in a certain way for a while, until I myself went through a trauma & needed support. Suddenly, the roles had shifted & not only did I need to set boundaries on how much of her load I could take on, but I needed support, which she wasn’t prepared to give. What ended the friendship, however, was her inability to say that she couldn’t support me in the ways I was asking - she would say “Yea of course I can [invite you out/come over/help you socialise/whatever]” - but literally never would. But the promises kept coming, to the point where I felt gaslit. And when I finally broke & pointed this out, she felt attacked, because she couldn’t express her boundaries or hear mine. The idea of boundaries felt like conflict or an attack, instead of something that would help us both understand each other’s limits.
Your phrase "showing up" has always been so evocative for me. My form of not showing up in friendships mostly corresponds to giving too much and/or giving performances. I was never a girl like most other girls, which I experienced as heartbreaking. It's like my mind was always different. I always wanted to be lighter and softer and more extroverted and fun, and instead I am serious and logical. I like science-y things and I know my own mind. Being different meant that I didn't fit in well as a child, so I was always looking for a new friend with the determination that I was going to try really really hard this time to be someone that my friend would like. I didn't fit in well at home either, which really amplified the screwed-upness of it all. My logical dad liked having a serious, smart daughter, but my mother did not, and she also felt threatened by the similarities that my father and I shared. My non-girly nature had made me the girl that even her mother didn't love.
As an adult, I have a successful career and a husband who (unbelievably to me) loves me. Still, I feel like I have this sharpness inside that I must constantly try to wrap in cotton because I know what will happen if any of my few friends brushes up against its edges: in the very next instant, I will find that I'm completely alone. The effort of this is so exhausting and stressful -- and it feels doomed to fail anyway, like it's just a matter of time until I drive them away. I'm always touched by your discoveries around living as who you truly are, and sometimes I feel flurries of hopefulness that I can do that too. I struggle, though, with the deep wells of sadness that my real self is so difficult for other people, and I feel afraid of the isolated life that I imagine is ahead.
I understand your advice about asking for what you want. Here's my issue: I don't like it when my friends assert boundaries or ask for what THEY want (I am feeling shame that I don't like it when ppl assert boundaries). I guess it makes me feel criticized/that I can't be myself?
For example, one of my friends said she doesn't like us talking about my crushes. (she's never had a crush, and I LOVE talking about my crushes). Now I just feel bad hanging out with her. I don't like upholding her boundaries, I guess, and that is bad. I actually want to stop hanging out with her now because I feel like I have to hide who I am.
I don't like when my friends ask for what they want so I rarely ask for what I want.
Social distancing and remote work have thrown my struggles with asking for things I need into high relief. I reach out rarely anyway but now seize with extra tenacity on any implication that the friend, colleague, or supervisor I want to contact or need to ask for information does not have time for my questions or tolerance for my feelings and then feel unable to inquire about normal and necessary aspects of my work or to explain to friends that I feel I can't approach them. I feel wrong and doomed to be a nuisance, always my worst fear and now often out of control. Suggestions appreciated.
I feel like I know what it's like to feel deeply lonely and misunderstood that I try to be so good & understanding & perhaps emotionally overextending (??) to other people. Only to feel like I'm not getting back that energy (because other people actually have their boundaries?). I know my friends show me love in other ways... but I get jealous when I see friends live EVERYTHING for their partners but seem to do the bare minimum intimacy in their friendships. I feel needy. But I guess it's time for me to branch out and make new friends, pursue people and hobbies that will lead me to feel fulfilled. I feel like I am definitely avoidant though and scared of people and things that seem interesting to me. And I feel like I minimize myself to let others flourish but I'm also scared of being "too much" and leaning into my "craziness" because I won't get that care in return.
I used to party a ton, beginning in college and up through my late 20s. After a bad breakup in which my partner's drug use was really scarring, I examined my own use. Felt I needed a change. Scaled back a lot. Also happened to get into a serious, happy relationship and settled into a cozy nest. As a result I discovered that I am not actually extroverted - I was just charmingly tipsy and flirtatiously single many nights a week for almost a decade. I struggle with my new modest introverted personality. I have a lot of friendships that were formed during my charmingly tipsy single stage and I struggle to connect the same way. I need a lot of alone time these days, sure, but it's also like I lost interest in sharing my day/week/month with some of my friends and I can't really figure out why.
I’ve been thinking about what we owe our friends all pandemic. My college roommates and I are all taking leaves of absence this year and they automatically assumed we’d all live together somewhere. That was not my vision. They are pack animals and, of course, I love the pack. But I also want to keep making new friends and bringing new people into my life. Sometimes I feel as if I owe it to the pack to invite them (all 5 of them) along for every adventure before anyone else. It’s what they’d do for me. But do I owe them that? Is it really disloyal to pursue other friendships? What do they even expect? Annoyances I have with these friends so quickly take on a sharper edge because I have chosen to be more separate from the group, even while maintaining very close individual relationships with everyone. I’m really afraid of creating difference where there isn’t any between these friends and I, but I’m really turned off by being a part of such an intense squad that has to OK it’s actions with the group.
Argg, this topic. I feel like - maybe like everyone, given the demands of the pandemic - I’ve struggled with friendship this year. I think perhaps one hard thing is that I don’t generally set boundaries well and have been practising doing so more (not during the most ideal circumstances, sure) and have often just encountered friends getting annoyed at this. I find it hard to sit with this as I don’t do well with people being angry at me and the moment someone gets angry, I automatically act like their mood is my problem to fix. Any tips on how to let your friends be angry and that be OK?
I'm a clingy and compulsive replier, or I often have been, and have long felt (in some friendships) that I'm always the one wanting their friendship and it's not reciprocated. During the first lockdown, I actually pretty much ignored/replied quite uninterestedly to a few of my older friends who I didn't have great relationships with. I feel bad for doing that, but I noticed that I too am very capable of avoiding replying when I don't feel like it. I'm trying to consider my attitude to other people and what I really want(ed) from relationships.
In terms of reaching out for support, this has been extremely difficult, but in general I rarely do it. I was living across the continent from most of my friends from 2018 until the start of the pandemic, and I met up with one of my friends this summer (who I'd seen maybe twice when I was back home for holiday), and told them that I had had a really hard time moving away on my own and being in a totally different place with no support. But they were surprised, because I'd just never said how I was feeling or what was going on, even over messenger. It's a bit of a common theme with me, and I notice that I'm upset that people don't reach out and ask me how I am, or share their difficulties and feelings with me, even though I never share my vulnerabilities with them.
I'm now in the position of wanting a) to meet some new people and b) to strengthen some existing friendships that I think are good relationships overall. a) won't happen for a while but b) is possible, it's just terrifying. I've been at a really low-ebb for the last few weeks, mostly due to stuff beyond my control. I'd like to reach out to friends and ask if they have some time to talk, and tell that I'm not doing well, but I don't trust that they want to hear from me or that they wouldn't see it as a burden - most of my friends have close relationships or partners, so it really feels like I'm just putting loads of stuff on them if I tell them about my problems. The terrible/maybe good part is that I know exactly how damaging my habit of not sharing anything is, but I'm also fighting against myself and giving myself myriad reasons not to be straight with people about how awful I feel about different areas of life.
For a long time I’ve been the friend that gave too much and got too little. I was afraid or ashamed to ask.
A tiny bright light for fellow readers: for the first time in my life (I’m in my late 30s) I’ve got a couple of solid friendships. We both feel like we got the better end of the deal, we have real and tough conflicts about vulnerable-feeling things, and what matters most is that we care for each other and want to understand each other and solve things together. I recently got out of a pretty toxic relationship and these friendships are giving me room to be myself without as much fear or shame, to be able to practice setting boundaries and asking for what I want, and getting to feel like a legitimately worthy human. And it’s a two way street. It’s pretty damn amazing. And a relief. Thanks for the moment to reflect and, for once, celebrate.
I have a bit of a problem. But I think its slightly common. I have terrible fibromyalgia (and Im only 24!), which sort of halted my need and well, want for partying. Given bouts with medication and a really bad drug trip & a slightly emotionally abusive ex, all mixed with chronic pain - I also lost my zest or desire to drink much. I developed this odd fear of losing consciousness or altered reality. (Going to therapy) but as a result of this all I paused drinking. This means there are many parties, hangouts that I stopped going to. One of my closest friends is a huge party animal. And has the best time drinking and living it up. She could go on for days w/o sleep, rest and just alcohol and still be dancing endlessly. We became friends before my days of chronic pain and during my days of self hate. Which means shes had a taste of drinking and partying with me. Theyre fond memories, I did have a lot of fun and I cherish them. But, I dont want to do those things anymore. I get tired 3 hours maybe into hanging out with someone. I need to go to bed or my pain just skyrockets and I feel sick. I dont drink and party. We do still have fun, we eat, cook, talk, sing (well, she sings), make breakfast etc. But everytime she asks me if Im up to party and I say no (I also am not a fan of the people she insists on partying with. Some of my old ex friends who were dicks to me. Shes still friends with them) she gets this forlorn look on her face of devastation and i start feeling super guilty. As if im boring and she just doesn't have the same fun with me and keeps expecting it. That sends me in a spiral of hate and remorse, which is already bad because of the realisation that there are some things I wont be able to do due to chronic pain. And then I see her just having the time of her life with her other friends that she parties and hang out with. Theres this happiness on her face that I feel like, isnt there with me. I migjt be overthinking this, Im aware. Because she loves me so dearly and always comes visit me before her boyfriend even when she comes back to our city (has been living in another city for a while). But I constantly feel this over rising guilt. As if I should be doing something im not. As if im boring. Even though, im not. I dont think so, at least. Argh. This feeling sort of really sucks, Aunt Polly.
One more post from greedy ole me - I moved from one (cool, western) city to another (cool, mountain) city to move in with my partner. In my new city (which is big, and ripe with opportunity to eat, and dance, and work out, and connect) I have two IRL friends from long ago and both are down to hang, but other than that how the FUCK does one make new friends when we're still social distancing and winter is coming??
On top of this uprooted discontent, a year ago I had a feud with my partners bff's partner, who was interested in being my friend, over her culturally insensitive art (like nearly every other festival goer//travel girl she was appropriating my culture for AestheticTM) and I feel really disinterested in giving that group/relationship another chance even though we live really close by and could be easy/good/casual friends, which makes me feel EXTREMELY bitchy but also makes me feel like as a woman of color I always have to take this extra step of vetting before I can determine if someone can create a safe space with me, and honestly it just feels exhausting to have to try and build a social life all over again.
I’ve often struggled with a co-dependent dynamic in relationships/friendships. Boundaries come from after you’ve either tapped out of your tank or used someone as a crutch in your decision making. Maintaining the bond goes both ways. Letting each other breathe into your own way but playing a supporting role is what I’ve discovered has worked over the years.
I am still working on boundaries, both setting my own and respecting other people's. Covid-19 killed my dad this summer and I'm supposed to be going on a desperately-needed girls trip next weekend. I'm taking it personally that everyone going isn't automatically and unquestioningly willing to do whatever I ask in terms of infection prevention (i.e. two tests 72 hrs apart and mask wearing whenever we're indoors and in the same room as someone else). But I'm at least speaking up about it rather than secretly stewing :-/ Friendship is indeed hard.
Your comment about taking and giving without boundaries as being two sides of the same coin really hit for me.
I definitely grew up in the model of giving-giving-giving, and it made figuring out and then establishing those boundaries so hard. Add a formative, emotionally abusive relationship in, and I created embedded patterns that I'm still unraveling in my healthy relationships years later. It's hard work both drawing boundaries with how I relate to others, but also drawing boundaries for myself, and redefining my agency. I still sometimes find myself shook when something old comes up--If I had to draw black and white categories in those moments, I would probably be the "toxic" one. I'm getting better but it's a continual process, I suppose is what I'm saying.
I have a friend who will go weeks in between responding to my texts now (sometimes I do this--life is hard right now!) but I've just been trying to check in every so often. She confessed that one of the reasons she hasn't been reaching out is that she worries that she is burdening me because she herself has a really hard time saying no to things. I felt a little lovingly exasperated!
I don't want her to assume that I wouldn't ask for space when I needed it--I feel pretty good at saying no to things now and I'm proud of it. But I also want her to understand that it's about me, not her, and not take any boundaries as a personal read on her character. And I heard that she was maybe needing to draw a boundary of her own, but wasn't able to be clear on it just then...It's unclear boundaries all the way down! I adore this friend, but I worry that I need to anticipate the feelings she's not voicing, and I really try not to act on my predictions of what's in another messy human's head anymore.
Polly, you are right. Friendship IS hard, especially in these weird weird times.
One of my closest, longest friendships has been drifting apart the last few years and the pandemic has made it worst. I've been doing a lot of work in therapy and I feel like I'm as close to my authentic self as I've ever been. With her, it feels like she's moving in the opposite direction, and she's becoming some weird plastic version of herself. We live a decent driving distance apart and I don't have car, so I've barely seen her and she doesn't like to talk on the phone. I don't know how to address how we're moving in different directions. How do you ask someone, "What is wrong with you?" when technically there's nothing wrong? It's like there's some invisible box in the way that I can feel but I can't see to describe it.
I have an old family friend (ah nothing like a family friend to complicate things) who really stirs a lot of shit in me that has NOTHING to do with her. We both come from conservative, immigrant families and I always thought we would be rebels together. Well, we ended up going down different paths, and let's just say she ended up sticking to our roots more than I did. She of course hasn't done anything wrong but I still find myself resenting her, which is totally unfair and immature I know! We also don't have that much in common and there's really not much to talk about, but she seems to be invested in the friendships more than I am, which makes me feel like a total dick. I am locked in this thinking of I need good reason behind my decisions and desires, and can't really come up with a reason not to be her friend besides the fact I'm insecure. Any thoughts?
I'm in a weird place where each time a friend cancels plans with me, it seems to sink me into a deeper and deeper hole. I used to be really genuinely nonchalant about it, but now it feels like 9/10 plans get cancelled, or postponed indefinitely, and it's turning into a feedback loop where I'm increasingly desperate for friends to come through for me, but my desperation repels people (understandably.) I know "learn to say no" and "don't feel bad about cancelling if you need to stay in and have some time alone" have become very popular instagram pseudo-psycho-education tropes, but shouldn't there be a balance of most of the time really putting in effort to show up for the people in your life, especially when you say you will? This experience the last few years has made me realize that you just never know where someone's at, emotionally, and bailing should be a rare exception instead of a go-to if you want to be a a good friend for someone to have. Someone you least expect might really need a basic level of reciprocity from you that you assume they're getting elsewhere. Now I try to respond much more often, in a more timely way, to reach out and see how someone's doing or see if they'd like to get together, and pretty much to never bail on plans. This is a change for me after being on the other side, and I wish more people would make these efforts.
I just had a good friend—one that I spoke to throughout the day every day (long distance)—drop me without very much explanation. She said "this friendship just doesn't feel right to me." I'm an advocate that no one is obligated to provide an explanation, that they are nice-to-have, freely-given options that are useful for clarity. But not giving one here just feels so cowardly. The truth is that I was always on eggshells in this friendship, because I could tell that something I would say would trip some kind of invisible wire, and she would emotionally withdraw, and then over time with me be extra careful she'd slowly come closer again. I'd never quite understand what the misstep was or why it threatened our connection, and so I started living in fear that I'd misstep again. When I'm comfortable with someone, I'm a direct, boisterous, energetic, and at times a little brusk and blunt person. I'm not sheepish or un-opinionated. But I keep finding myself in friendships with people simply too sensitive for this. I feel like a bull in emotional china shops with friendships, and like conversations have to run on these scripts of tip-toeing and checking in. Trying to look for people with a little more "grit" as my therapist puts it.
At some point during this whole pandemic shitshow, I realized I don't actually trust any of my friends with my whole self. They're not bad people and I don't blame them for my inability to show up, but it still hurts. Socializing feels painful because I'm not sure how to stop mirroring people's mannerisms and opinions, and it's exhausting. I know that's not healthy for me or my friends, but I'm not sure how to break the pattern.
My girlfriend and I are going through our first serious rough patch (long story short, I feel like I work harder than she does on both housework and feelings-management and I'm starting to resent that, and I've been acting like an asshole because of it). I'm reaching a breaking point and I need support, but I don't know what kind of support I need. I'm working on identifying my needs and wants in therapy, but it's slow going. I guess I just need permission to feel my "unacceptable" feelings in someone else's presence, but there's no one in my life besides my therapist who I trust enough.
Long story short, I'm lonely and angry and it's my own fault.
I found this happening to me in the past when I tried setting boundaries but wasn't good about enforcing them yet... I ended up wondering if there was any point to boundaries, since many people reacted so badly to it.
I started intentionally NOT setting boundaries, because then at least I wouldn't KNOW that the people around me didn't care about them. It seemed better at the time to assume they just didn't know, instead of feeling WORSE knowing they knew and just didn't care...
I'm now in a healthier place and trying again, but this is still a big fear for me!
Does all this mean that we have to deal with our sad events alone, like deaths and divorces and health issues and other losses, so that we’re not going “on and on” to our friends, requiring them to have good boundaries and get off the phone quickly? I get you can’t expect endless support, and obviously no bad behavior, but is there no space any more for friendships being at least partial resources / containers for this kind of thing? Can we not expect this from friendships any more?
I’m the one typically listening, without good boundaries and I’ve paid for it...but I also truly like listening to people and supporting them. I want that in return. Is that something I shouldn’t expect?
I just said goodbye to my best friend of many years a few months ago. She violated my boundaries constantly-- even when I reinforced them in the moment. She is a great human being but I feel much more peaceful and a lot less anxious now. She allowed someone to verbally mistreat me in her home in August, and when I brought it up to her immediately after it happened and told her that it hurt my feelings, she brushed it off and acted like nothing happened. This continued into the next day: it seemed that she would not set a boundary with this friend she brought into her home so I let them know I did not appreciate the way they spoke to me. My friend then gaslit me and tried to convince me that nothing happened and I was crazy / overreacting. She even told me that she was hurt that I would come to her this way, accusing her of allowing someone to mistreat me. She said her friend, let's call them Joe, didn't say anything aggressive or rude to me because she asked Joe and he said he would never. This broke the camel's back. This was not the first time she gaslit me or told me 'you look crazy, how would you feel if someone came to you expressing their feelings like you just did? you would think they were nuts...'. She brushed off my anxiety and its effects on my mood / capabilities-- until she became anxious at the start of the pandemic and apologized for not being supportive enough when I started to spiral. She told me she did not want to talk with me about a MAJOR heartbreak / abusive relationship I went through because I looked crazy and we weren't going to agree on whatever she thought it was important for us to agree on. I was just looking for some consolation from my friend after being abused (and not knowing at the time that it was in fact abuse and not just a jerk hurting my feels). Again, she apologized and told me she can now empathize with what I went through because she was going through a similar situation with someone in the present (which is not true and pales in comparison). I think I've gotten pretty good at asking for what I need and setting boundaries with folks-- and even allowing flexibility with boundaries over time. People change, feelings change, etc. I'm also a fresh 30 years old and I know friendships are bound to shift and change, or even disintegrate. I just can't handle someone I care about constantly disregarding my needs in the name of friendship. I never thought about having to find a new playground with new people and muster up the moxi to make new pals. Sigh. During a hellish nightmare at that.
The oddest thing has happened to my friendships over the course of the pandemic. I'm talking about the girlfriends that I would get together with regularly for a walk or a glass of wine or maybe lunch or dinner - the 8 or 10 women who I count on as my closest friends. All of these women live nearby and all know each other, if not as closely as I know them individually. In the first couple of months of COVID, there were regular emails and texts - some more serious, some humorous posts from wherever that we forwarded to each other. Around May or June, those kinds of connections started to dwindle. I still cared about my friends but there seemed to be a mutual stepping back. That has not changed. There have never been zoom or FT meetings and now it feels as if they are history. I actually do think that , when things are safer again, some of those friendships might be revived but IDK. I sort of miss them but I sort of don't.
What's equally interesting is how my on line friendships have grown. I have grown closer to a wide variety of people that I know only from Twitter. Most of these people I know b/c of shared interests_ books, poetry, art, hope, and some political connections. Somehow I have more contact and , generally quite real contact, with these distant connections than with the people I know IRL. I'm happy with that too.
I wonder if other people have experienced this reversal.
I also think that our compasses can get misaligned by our childhood experiences. We can feel "good" or "relief" when we enter a bad situation because it is familiar. It takes time and somatic work to realign the compass to true north.
It's so fucking hard! All of it, goddamn! I learnt a lot about boundaries when I was younger from volunteering at a suicide crisis line (the training was extremely good and taught me the difference between a difficult conversation and an unproductive one). What surprised me, and still continues to surprise me is how stunningly direct you can be with someone while still taking them seriously.
Telling a depressed person that they have talked themselves in circles and it would best for them to hang up to get on with their day sounds so awful and rude, doesn't it? And yet I disobeyed every value about politeness I was raised with, followed the crisis line policies and did it lovingly, and it was taken as such, and I still can't believe I pulled it off. That's a slightly more controlled, intense environment than everyday life but it has stuck with me for years, and reminds me that honesty isn't as scary as overriding the discomfort.
I remember years ago I was in a bad place and I wrote to several friends about it. They all answered very pragmatically, suggesting courses of action when what I wanted was some empathy, some warmth and comfort. I found myself feeling so hurt but I realized that I had created the situation. I had attracted pragmatic friends and I had kept them at arm's length. We had no history together of my being vulnerable so they responded as they thought I wanted. But even seeing that, it's taken me many years to shift my disordered attachment and fear of vulnerability. I am still on the path of it. My difficulties and deep hurt have made me feel so tender toward human beings. What pain we carry!
I don't have an answer but man I have some friends that are huge sucks of time and attention and I'm torn between my "Oh god, not now" reaction when I see a message or something from them and believing as one of their few/only friends, I can't just ditch them because that's not cool.
Who are these people who constantly reach out to you (general you)? I've only known those who ignore me forever
Thank you for making yourself so accessible during this time. You are so smart and wise and fucking awesome. I love you💕
I'm an only child, and had a mostly positive but boundary-less relationship with my mom for most of my life. Once I finally gave myself permission to set boundaries with her, all of my relationships improved. I finally trusted my own needs and feelings instead of looking to her (or others) for approval / instruction, and became so much better at asking for what I want without shame. When I first started setting them-- which began by me telling her that I didn't want to discuss my dating life with her for a set period of time-- she was angry and hurt. But, after re-setting that boundary several times, we finally broke out of our bad dynamic and into a better one. She and I are still close, and sometimes we even fall back on old patterns, but she trusts and respects me in ways she didn't before. Boundaries are a blessing.
The nebulous way we define friendships doesn't help either -- how tragic for all parties involved when one person wants a much deeper/more invested friendship than theother. Can be very difficult to manage expectations without having romance-like "Defining The Relationship" conversations.
This week's column made me think - especially this part:
"It’s humbling to realize that your damage probably matches your friends’ damage on some level, it just manifests itself in different ways."
I too have struggled maintaining friendships in the past, but I'd like to think that I'm generally good at understanding that I'm flawed and biased and have deep insecurities. What frustrates me is when friends can't meet me there - I say something to myself like "why do I have to be the only one that's reflecting on what I did wrong here and how I could be a better friend? You're not doing any reflecting!" I've found this with some ex-friends even when mustering up the courage to have those difficult boundaries conversations.
Although I can zoom out and see why some ex-friendships just weren't right, I do wonder "is it me?" How do you know when your boundaries are serving you or when you're just not being a flexible enough friend?
I have lived in 3 states in 10 years. This means that most of my friendships are long distance and rely on text and phone calls, especially more so in the pandemic. I struggled with this pre-covid and I am especially struggling with this now, because so many of my friendships seem to have unspoken conflicts or minor breakdowns that seem related to the incompleteness of a text exchange. Tone is hard to convey over a typed message, you know? I struggle to admit I need more from a friendship because I feel like you need to accept your friends as they are.
I loved this week’s column, & think the idea of boundaries & clearly expressing them goes in all ways. I had a friend for years for whom I was always the one listening & supportive & giving advice, because I didn’t set boundaries - & this was fine in a certain way for a while, until I myself went through a trauma & needed support. Suddenly, the roles had shifted & not only did I need to set boundaries on how much of her load I could take on, but I needed support, which she wasn’t prepared to give. What ended the friendship, however, was her inability to say that she couldn’t support me in the ways I was asking - she would say “Yea of course I can [invite you out/come over/help you socialise/whatever]” - but literally never would. But the promises kept coming, to the point where I felt gaslit. And when I finally broke & pointed this out, she felt attacked, because she couldn’t express her boundaries or hear mine. The idea of boundaries felt like conflict or an attack, instead of something that would help us both understand each other’s limits.
Your phrase "showing up" has always been so evocative for me. My form of not showing up in friendships mostly corresponds to giving too much and/or giving performances. I was never a girl like most other girls, which I experienced as heartbreaking. It's like my mind was always different. I always wanted to be lighter and softer and more extroverted and fun, and instead I am serious and logical. I like science-y things and I know my own mind. Being different meant that I didn't fit in well as a child, so I was always looking for a new friend with the determination that I was going to try really really hard this time to be someone that my friend would like. I didn't fit in well at home either, which really amplified the screwed-upness of it all. My logical dad liked having a serious, smart daughter, but my mother did not, and she also felt threatened by the similarities that my father and I shared. My non-girly nature had made me the girl that even her mother didn't love.
As an adult, I have a successful career and a husband who (unbelievably to me) loves me. Still, I feel like I have this sharpness inside that I must constantly try to wrap in cotton because I know what will happen if any of my few friends brushes up against its edges: in the very next instant, I will find that I'm completely alone. The effort of this is so exhausting and stressful -- and it feels doomed to fail anyway, like it's just a matter of time until I drive them away. I'm always touched by your discoveries around living as who you truly are, and sometimes I feel flurries of hopefulness that I can do that too. I struggle, though, with the deep wells of sadness that my real self is so difficult for other people, and I feel afraid of the isolated life that I imagine is ahead.
I understand your advice about asking for what you want. Here's my issue: I don't like it when my friends assert boundaries or ask for what THEY want (I am feeling shame that I don't like it when ppl assert boundaries). I guess it makes me feel criticized/that I can't be myself?
For example, one of my friends said she doesn't like us talking about my crushes. (she's never had a crush, and I LOVE talking about my crushes). Now I just feel bad hanging out with her. I don't like upholding her boundaries, I guess, and that is bad. I actually want to stop hanging out with her now because I feel like I have to hide who I am.
I don't like when my friends ask for what they want so I rarely ask for what I want.
Social distancing and remote work have thrown my struggles with asking for things I need into high relief. I reach out rarely anyway but now seize with extra tenacity on any implication that the friend, colleague, or supervisor I want to contact or need to ask for information does not have time for my questions or tolerance for my feelings and then feel unable to inquire about normal and necessary aspects of my work or to explain to friends that I feel I can't approach them. I feel wrong and doomed to be a nuisance, always my worst fear and now often out of control. Suggestions appreciated.
I feel like I know what it's like to feel deeply lonely and misunderstood that I try to be so good & understanding & perhaps emotionally overextending (??) to other people. Only to feel like I'm not getting back that energy (because other people actually have their boundaries?). I know my friends show me love in other ways... but I get jealous when I see friends live EVERYTHING for their partners but seem to do the bare minimum intimacy in their friendships. I feel needy. But I guess it's time for me to branch out and make new friends, pursue people and hobbies that will lead me to feel fulfilled. I feel like I am definitely avoidant though and scared of people and things that seem interesting to me. And I feel like I minimize myself to let others flourish but I'm also scared of being "too much" and leaning into my "craziness" because I won't get that care in return.
Alcohol is a real tricky thing.
I used to party a ton, beginning in college and up through my late 20s. After a bad breakup in which my partner's drug use was really scarring, I examined my own use. Felt I needed a change. Scaled back a lot. Also happened to get into a serious, happy relationship and settled into a cozy nest. As a result I discovered that I am not actually extroverted - I was just charmingly tipsy and flirtatiously single many nights a week for almost a decade. I struggle with my new modest introverted personality. I have a lot of friendships that were formed during my charmingly tipsy single stage and I struggle to connect the same way. I need a lot of alone time these days, sure, but it's also like I lost interest in sharing my day/week/month with some of my friends and I can't really figure out why.
I’ve been thinking about what we owe our friends all pandemic. My college roommates and I are all taking leaves of absence this year and they automatically assumed we’d all live together somewhere. That was not my vision. They are pack animals and, of course, I love the pack. But I also want to keep making new friends and bringing new people into my life. Sometimes I feel as if I owe it to the pack to invite them (all 5 of them) along for every adventure before anyone else. It’s what they’d do for me. But do I owe them that? Is it really disloyal to pursue other friendships? What do they even expect? Annoyances I have with these friends so quickly take on a sharper edge because I have chosen to be more separate from the group, even while maintaining very close individual relationships with everyone. I’m really afraid of creating difference where there isn’t any between these friends and I, but I’m really turned off by being a part of such an intense squad that has to OK it’s actions with the group.
Argg, this topic. I feel like - maybe like everyone, given the demands of the pandemic - I’ve struggled with friendship this year. I think perhaps one hard thing is that I don’t generally set boundaries well and have been practising doing so more (not during the most ideal circumstances, sure) and have often just encountered friends getting annoyed at this. I find it hard to sit with this as I don’t do well with people being angry at me and the moment someone gets angry, I automatically act like their mood is my problem to fix. Any tips on how to let your friends be angry and that be OK?
I'm a clingy and compulsive replier, or I often have been, and have long felt (in some friendships) that I'm always the one wanting their friendship and it's not reciprocated. During the first lockdown, I actually pretty much ignored/replied quite uninterestedly to a few of my older friends who I didn't have great relationships with. I feel bad for doing that, but I noticed that I too am very capable of avoiding replying when I don't feel like it. I'm trying to consider my attitude to other people and what I really want(ed) from relationships.
In terms of reaching out for support, this has been extremely difficult, but in general I rarely do it. I was living across the continent from most of my friends from 2018 until the start of the pandemic, and I met up with one of my friends this summer (who I'd seen maybe twice when I was back home for holiday), and told them that I had had a really hard time moving away on my own and being in a totally different place with no support. But they were surprised, because I'd just never said how I was feeling or what was going on, even over messenger. It's a bit of a common theme with me, and I notice that I'm upset that people don't reach out and ask me how I am, or share their difficulties and feelings with me, even though I never share my vulnerabilities with them.
I'm now in the position of wanting a) to meet some new people and b) to strengthen some existing friendships that I think are good relationships overall. a) won't happen for a while but b) is possible, it's just terrifying. I've been at a really low-ebb for the last few weeks, mostly due to stuff beyond my control. I'd like to reach out to friends and ask if they have some time to talk, and tell that I'm not doing well, but I don't trust that they want to hear from me or that they wouldn't see it as a burden - most of my friends have close relationships or partners, so it really feels like I'm just putting loads of stuff on them if I tell them about my problems. The terrible/maybe good part is that I know exactly how damaging my habit of not sharing anything is, but I'm also fighting against myself and giving myself myriad reasons not to be straight with people about how awful I feel about different areas of life.
For a long time I’ve been the friend that gave too much and got too little. I was afraid or ashamed to ask.
A tiny bright light for fellow readers: for the first time in my life (I’m in my late 30s) I’ve got a couple of solid friendships. We both feel like we got the better end of the deal, we have real and tough conflicts about vulnerable-feeling things, and what matters most is that we care for each other and want to understand each other and solve things together. I recently got out of a pretty toxic relationship and these friendships are giving me room to be myself without as much fear or shame, to be able to practice setting boundaries and asking for what I want, and getting to feel like a legitimately worthy human. And it’s a two way street. It’s pretty damn amazing. And a relief. Thanks for the moment to reflect and, for once, celebrate.
God I love your advice. So fucking much.
I have a bit of a problem. But I think its slightly common. I have terrible fibromyalgia (and Im only 24!), which sort of halted my need and well, want for partying. Given bouts with medication and a really bad drug trip & a slightly emotionally abusive ex, all mixed with chronic pain - I also lost my zest or desire to drink much. I developed this odd fear of losing consciousness or altered reality. (Going to therapy) but as a result of this all I paused drinking. This means there are many parties, hangouts that I stopped going to. One of my closest friends is a huge party animal. And has the best time drinking and living it up. She could go on for days w/o sleep, rest and just alcohol and still be dancing endlessly. We became friends before my days of chronic pain and during my days of self hate. Which means shes had a taste of drinking and partying with me. Theyre fond memories, I did have a lot of fun and I cherish them. But, I dont want to do those things anymore. I get tired 3 hours maybe into hanging out with someone. I need to go to bed or my pain just skyrockets and I feel sick. I dont drink and party. We do still have fun, we eat, cook, talk, sing (well, she sings), make breakfast etc. But everytime she asks me if Im up to party and I say no (I also am not a fan of the people she insists on partying with. Some of my old ex friends who were dicks to me. Shes still friends with them) she gets this forlorn look on her face of devastation and i start feeling super guilty. As if im boring and she just doesn't have the same fun with me and keeps expecting it. That sends me in a spiral of hate and remorse, which is already bad because of the realisation that there are some things I wont be able to do due to chronic pain. And then I see her just having the time of her life with her other friends that she parties and hang out with. Theres this happiness on her face that I feel like, isnt there with me. I migjt be overthinking this, Im aware. Because she loves me so dearly and always comes visit me before her boyfriend even when she comes back to our city (has been living in another city for a while). But I constantly feel this over rising guilt. As if I should be doing something im not. As if im boring. Even though, im not. I dont think so, at least. Argh. This feeling sort of really sucks, Aunt Polly.
One more post from greedy ole me - I moved from one (cool, western) city to another (cool, mountain) city to move in with my partner. In my new city (which is big, and ripe with opportunity to eat, and dance, and work out, and connect) I have two IRL friends from long ago and both are down to hang, but other than that how the FUCK does one make new friends when we're still social distancing and winter is coming??
On top of this uprooted discontent, a year ago I had a feud with my partners bff's partner, who was interested in being my friend, over her culturally insensitive art (like nearly every other festival goer//travel girl she was appropriating my culture for AestheticTM) and I feel really disinterested in giving that group/relationship another chance even though we live really close by and could be easy/good/casual friends, which makes me feel EXTREMELY bitchy but also makes me feel like as a woman of color I always have to take this extra step of vetting before I can determine if someone can create a safe space with me, and honestly it just feels exhausting to have to try and build a social life all over again.
I’ve often struggled with a co-dependent dynamic in relationships/friendships. Boundaries come from after you’ve either tapped out of your tank or used someone as a crutch in your decision making. Maintaining the bond goes both ways. Letting each other breathe into your own way but playing a supporting role is what I’ve discovered has worked over the years.
I am still working on boundaries, both setting my own and respecting other people's. Covid-19 killed my dad this summer and I'm supposed to be going on a desperately-needed girls trip next weekend. I'm taking it personally that everyone going isn't automatically and unquestioningly willing to do whatever I ask in terms of infection prevention (i.e. two tests 72 hrs apart and mask wearing whenever we're indoors and in the same room as someone else). But I'm at least speaking up about it rather than secretly stewing :-/ Friendship is indeed hard.
Your comment about taking and giving without boundaries as being two sides of the same coin really hit for me.
I definitely grew up in the model of giving-giving-giving, and it made figuring out and then establishing those boundaries so hard. Add a formative, emotionally abusive relationship in, and I created embedded patterns that I'm still unraveling in my healthy relationships years later. It's hard work both drawing boundaries with how I relate to others, but also drawing boundaries for myself, and redefining my agency. I still sometimes find myself shook when something old comes up--If I had to draw black and white categories in those moments, I would probably be the "toxic" one. I'm getting better but it's a continual process, I suppose is what I'm saying.
I have a friend who will go weeks in between responding to my texts now (sometimes I do this--life is hard right now!) but I've just been trying to check in every so often. She confessed that one of the reasons she hasn't been reaching out is that she worries that she is burdening me because she herself has a really hard time saying no to things. I felt a little lovingly exasperated!
I don't want her to assume that I wouldn't ask for space when I needed it--I feel pretty good at saying no to things now and I'm proud of it. But I also want her to understand that it's about me, not her, and not take any boundaries as a personal read on her character. And I heard that she was maybe needing to draw a boundary of her own, but wasn't able to be clear on it just then...It's unclear boundaries all the way down! I adore this friend, but I worry that I need to anticipate the feelings she's not voicing, and I really try not to act on my predictions of what's in another messy human's head anymore.
Polly, you are right. Friendship IS hard, especially in these weird weird times.
One of my closest, longest friendships has been drifting apart the last few years and the pandemic has made it worst. I've been doing a lot of work in therapy and I feel like I'm as close to my authentic self as I've ever been. With her, it feels like she's moving in the opposite direction, and she's becoming some weird plastic version of herself. We live a decent driving distance apart and I don't have car, so I've barely seen her and she doesn't like to talk on the phone. I don't know how to address how we're moving in different directions. How do you ask someone, "What is wrong with you?" when technically there's nothing wrong? It's like there's some invisible box in the way that I can feel but I can't see to describe it.
I have an old family friend (ah nothing like a family friend to complicate things) who really stirs a lot of shit in me that has NOTHING to do with her. We both come from conservative, immigrant families and I always thought we would be rebels together. Well, we ended up going down different paths, and let's just say she ended up sticking to our roots more than I did. She of course hasn't done anything wrong but I still find myself resenting her, which is totally unfair and immature I know! We also don't have that much in common and there's really not much to talk about, but she seems to be invested in the friendships more than I am, which makes me feel like a total dick. I am locked in this thinking of I need good reason behind my decisions and desires, and can't really come up with a reason not to be her friend besides the fact I'm insecure. Any thoughts?
I'm in a weird place where each time a friend cancels plans with me, it seems to sink me into a deeper and deeper hole. I used to be really genuinely nonchalant about it, but now it feels like 9/10 plans get cancelled, or postponed indefinitely, and it's turning into a feedback loop where I'm increasingly desperate for friends to come through for me, but my desperation repels people (understandably.) I know "learn to say no" and "don't feel bad about cancelling if you need to stay in and have some time alone" have become very popular instagram pseudo-psycho-education tropes, but shouldn't there be a balance of most of the time really putting in effort to show up for the people in your life, especially when you say you will? This experience the last few years has made me realize that you just never know where someone's at, emotionally, and bailing should be a rare exception instead of a go-to if you want to be a a good friend for someone to have. Someone you least expect might really need a basic level of reciprocity from you that you assume they're getting elsewhere. Now I try to respond much more often, in a more timely way, to reach out and see how someone's doing or see if they'd like to get together, and pretty much to never bail on plans. This is a change for me after being on the other side, and I wish more people would make these efforts.
I just had a good friend—one that I spoke to throughout the day every day (long distance)—drop me without very much explanation. She said "this friendship just doesn't feel right to me." I'm an advocate that no one is obligated to provide an explanation, that they are nice-to-have, freely-given options that are useful for clarity. But not giving one here just feels so cowardly. The truth is that I was always on eggshells in this friendship, because I could tell that something I would say would trip some kind of invisible wire, and she would emotionally withdraw, and then over time with me be extra careful she'd slowly come closer again. I'd never quite understand what the misstep was or why it threatened our connection, and so I started living in fear that I'd misstep again. When I'm comfortable with someone, I'm a direct, boisterous, energetic, and at times a little brusk and blunt person. I'm not sheepish or un-opinionated. But I keep finding myself in friendships with people simply too sensitive for this. I feel like a bull in emotional china shops with friendships, and like conversations have to run on these scripts of tip-toeing and checking in. Trying to look for people with a little more "grit" as my therapist puts it.
Friendship is HARD! God! It's hard!
At some point during this whole pandemic shitshow, I realized I don't actually trust any of my friends with my whole self. They're not bad people and I don't blame them for my inability to show up, but it still hurts. Socializing feels painful because I'm not sure how to stop mirroring people's mannerisms and opinions, and it's exhausting. I know that's not healthy for me or my friends, but I'm not sure how to break the pattern.
My girlfriend and I are going through our first serious rough patch (long story short, I feel like I work harder than she does on both housework and feelings-management and I'm starting to resent that, and I've been acting like an asshole because of it). I'm reaching a breaking point and I need support, but I don't know what kind of support I need. I'm working on identifying my needs and wants in therapy, but it's slow going. I guess I just need permission to feel my "unacceptable" feelings in someone else's presence, but there's no one in my life besides my therapist who I trust enough.
Long story short, I'm lonely and angry and it's my own fault.
what do you think about this concept of an 'asshole filter'?
https://siderea.livejournal.com/1230660.html
I found this happening to me in the past when I tried setting boundaries but wasn't good about enforcing them yet... I ended up wondering if there was any point to boundaries, since many people reacted so badly to it.
I started intentionally NOT setting boundaries, because then at least I wouldn't KNOW that the people around me didn't care about them. It seemed better at the time to assume they just didn't know, instead of feeling WORSE knowing they knew and just didn't care...
I'm now in a healthier place and trying again, but this is still a big fear for me!
Does all this mean that we have to deal with our sad events alone, like deaths and divorces and health issues and other losses, so that we’re not going “on and on” to our friends, requiring them to have good boundaries and get off the phone quickly? I get you can’t expect endless support, and obviously no bad behavior, but is there no space any more for friendships being at least partial resources / containers for this kind of thing? Can we not expect this from friendships any more?
I’m the one typically listening, without good boundaries and I’ve paid for it...but I also truly like listening to people and supporting them. I want that in return. Is that something I shouldn’t expect?
Regarding friends and family, I constantly feel like I have to try so so hard to be GOOD. I just feel like I'm always trying to make up for something.
I just said goodbye to my best friend of many years a few months ago. She violated my boundaries constantly-- even when I reinforced them in the moment. She is a great human being but I feel much more peaceful and a lot less anxious now. She allowed someone to verbally mistreat me in her home in August, and when I brought it up to her immediately after it happened and told her that it hurt my feelings, she brushed it off and acted like nothing happened. This continued into the next day: it seemed that she would not set a boundary with this friend she brought into her home so I let them know I did not appreciate the way they spoke to me. My friend then gaslit me and tried to convince me that nothing happened and I was crazy / overreacting. She even told me that she was hurt that I would come to her this way, accusing her of allowing someone to mistreat me. She said her friend, let's call them Joe, didn't say anything aggressive or rude to me because she asked Joe and he said he would never. This broke the camel's back. This was not the first time she gaslit me or told me 'you look crazy, how would you feel if someone came to you expressing their feelings like you just did? you would think they were nuts...'. She brushed off my anxiety and its effects on my mood / capabilities-- until she became anxious at the start of the pandemic and apologized for not being supportive enough when I started to spiral. She told me she did not want to talk with me about a MAJOR heartbreak / abusive relationship I went through because I looked crazy and we weren't going to agree on whatever she thought it was important for us to agree on. I was just looking for some consolation from my friend after being abused (and not knowing at the time that it was in fact abuse and not just a jerk hurting my feels). Again, she apologized and told me she can now empathize with what I went through because she was going through a similar situation with someone in the present (which is not true and pales in comparison). I think I've gotten pretty good at asking for what I need and setting boundaries with folks-- and even allowing flexibility with boundaries over time. People change, feelings change, etc. I'm also a fresh 30 years old and I know friendships are bound to shift and change, or even disintegrate. I just can't handle someone I care about constantly disregarding my needs in the name of friendship. I never thought about having to find a new playground with new people and muster up the moxi to make new pals. Sigh. During a hellish nightmare at that.
The oddest thing has happened to my friendships over the course of the pandemic. I'm talking about the girlfriends that I would get together with regularly for a walk or a glass of wine or maybe lunch or dinner - the 8 or 10 women who I count on as my closest friends. All of these women live nearby and all know each other, if not as closely as I know them individually. In the first couple of months of COVID, there were regular emails and texts - some more serious, some humorous posts from wherever that we forwarded to each other. Around May or June, those kinds of connections started to dwindle. I still cared about my friends but there seemed to be a mutual stepping back. That has not changed. There have never been zoom or FT meetings and now it feels as if they are history. I actually do think that , when things are safer again, some of those friendships might be revived but IDK. I sort of miss them but I sort of don't.
What's equally interesting is how my on line friendships have grown. I have grown closer to a wide variety of people that I know only from Twitter. Most of these people I know b/c of shared interests_ books, poetry, art, hope, and some political connections. Somehow I have more contact and , generally quite real contact, with these distant connections than with the people I know IRL. I'm happy with that too.
I wonder if other people have experienced this reversal.